Future&EE

[trololo]

On the eve of a new max30 i want to ask @ADMIN and community, opinion about EE in future projects.I think it's time we give up this class in the future, because it only brings discomfort to the game. We are all different people, with different desires and capabilities, someone can play in 3 acc, someone on turnover are not willing to work so hard and want to play only in 1 window. And in the end, the winner is the one who at the right moment has Buff. And this greatly affects the balance, many do not realize that strong character is the sum of all aspects: class, items, party and buff which can also be better or worse. 

What its ur opinione about that? 

[Mitsakos]

Phoenix was the 1^st project I’ve played here so I dunno about the older ones. But as a MU player for the past 15 years and member of this wonderful community  I would like to share my opinion.  When I 1^st started playing here (I’m talking about the previous months when server was really really crowded) I was impressed about how important EE are. Me and me fellows were literally surprised about how many EEs existed and we soon understood why. Simply and short stated: If you ever wanted to do ANYTHING you MUST have had an EE with you always from the easiest and simplest things to end-game content. Which is normal as the case with EEs has been this way but especially here it was way way way bigger and mandatory the existence of EE. I think ADMIN made some moves (one example is the nerf on Dark Elf quest) to make the impact EEs have a bit smaller and I think that’s the right direction to keep things going. Of course there (a very few indeed but they exist!) players who play as main class EE. In the end let’s not forget that since MU was released it has been always about who has that EE buff/Heal  in the right – crucial moment.  So that thing I don’t think it can change at all. But sure some “nerfing” in some aspects of the game could be done.
Quick Edit: As about Summoners, oh well all I can say is that is a very flexible class and can do a lot of things just great both in PvP and PvE in the same time. Since Summoner was released  I always thought is one of the most (if not no1) broken classes in game. But can we trully change the very nature of a class?

[Zonzo]

interesting,it might change the whole game!

[Mynd33]

Have to agree with EE problem, it brings more suffering and difficulities than joy. As it stands for now everyone MUST have EE in group. I played 2 previous editions and never met someone who mained or liked playing EE. They had to play it in order to be viable. I remember many times when someone couldn't even go on Golden Invasion with his main, because party/guild forced to take EE and in PVP events you can't just leave EE afk in corner you have to play with her and run to survive. Even myself I was forced to go on most events with EE instead of my MG and it killed fun for the game dramatically. Maintaining 2nd mu-client with EE really feels like a chore and not fun activity what games are meant to be. This class has such huge impact that you want it in every party and group that does any activity in MU (leveling/goldens/pvp/CS..). EE SHOULD be for people that want to play her as a main class because they enjoy character and not force everyone to maintain 2nd window with EE (buff-bot).

 My suggestion would be to nerf EE in content that is requiring her as alt (leveling) BUT leaving her strong in content that requires to play EE as main (best example is CS). It is pretty complex problem, but basic example would be nerfing EE buffs, so people don't have to maintain EE for party, BUT people who main her for PVP will still have huge impact with SD recovery. I want to make clear that I have nothing against people that enjoy this class and mains it, BUT I would like change for times when you just have a chore to maintain EE for buffs, leave it afk on spot and never actually play with her.

[ADMIN]

On 8/22/2019 at 8:36 PM, Shuryk said:

On the eve of a new max30 i want to ask @ADMIN and community, opinion about EE in future projects.I think it's time we give up this class in the future, because it only brings discomfort to the game. We are all different people, with different desires and capabilities, someone can play in 3 acc, someone on turnover are not willing to work so hard and want to play only in 1 window. And in the end, the winner is the one who at the right moment has Buff. And this greatly affects the balance, many do not realize that strong character is the sum of all aspects: class, items, party and buff which can also be better or worse. 

What its ur opinione about that? 

You asked for my opinion, I'll tell you mine.

I've thought about this subject long time ago, but never imagined that people would really want such thing.

So, what was my idea about this subject:
- Make EE buffs useless on normal Server (1) so nobody would have to make EE for leveling up (and balancing the content for no ee-buffs parties).
- Let the EE still be a choice, but just for dedicated EE's or simply AE's as hybrid builds for CS (that means buffs will be decent on Server 20 - mainly CS).
- Bring down the limit of accounts per IP+HWID to 2 from 3 to match the No-EE needs.

Of course, this are just my thoughts, but if people really like such idea I can make an official poll for it (but we need to hurry up as all mobs must be reworked for such thing).

[Zutto]

I somehow missed this but im all aboard, it always seems like EE is just a painfull chore you need but none wants to take care off. 

This is a great idea, and it would balance things out better

[Mitsakos]

That 2 clients per ip+hwid max i think it should be done regardless the nerf or not of EEs anyway. 

[ADMIN]

7 minutes ago, Mitsakos said:

That 2 clients per ip+hwid max i think it should be done regardless the nerf or not of EEs anyway. 

We've been there, done that.

There are 2 major problems for setting up a limit:
- You set it to 2 acc per IP+HWID (while EE is a must) and you have a lot of problems with people that play from shared IP's (real examples: students on dorms) as for example 2 people same IP, 1 must make his own char + the EE and the other has no space to play.
- You set it to 2 acc per HWID (while EE is a must), you'll fix the other problem but new problems appear as it's easier to bypass the limit for people with multiple devices but same IP, giving them an advantage.

So the best option (from almost 4 years experience) is 3 ACC per IP+HWID (of course, in our current context where EE is a must).

[Mynd33]

 

2 hours ago, ADMIN said:

You asked for my opinion, I'll tell you mine.

I've thought about this subject long time ago, but never imagined that people would really want such thing.

So, what was my idea about this subject:
- Make EE buffs useless on normal Server (1) so nobody would have to make EE for leveling up (and balancing the content for no ee-buffs parties).
- Let the EE still be a choice, but just for dedicated EE's or simply AE's as hybrid builds for CS (that means buffs will be decent on Server 20 - mainly CS).
- Bring down the limit of accounts per IP+HWID to 2 from 3 to match the No-EE needs.

Of course, this are just my thoughts, but if people really like such idea I can make an official poll for it (but we need to hurry up as all mobs must be reworked for such thing).

I am gladly surprised that administration is aware of this problem. Personally I would be ok with removing EE, but was afraid to offer such drastic solution. I think Inception is perfect opportunity to test this change, because those kind of servers tend to be easier than non-reset ones where there is only 2,3k stats total and you can't afford to waste a single point. I remember in order to do Maya you had to have EE and even EneRF to not die, but with Inceptions 42k stats there will be no problem to put enough stamina to live even without EE.

Looking forward for vote-poll to see what are communities thoughts!

[Pershing]

EE is inseparable element of this game and I simply can't imagine this happening. You're saying about late stage of the game when you have 10rr++ but what about first few resets where you have limited stats due to lvl points? I am against this kind of changes coz it would change everything and there would be many unexpected problems after. 

If Inception is your "mother" project it should be tested on max50rr server then as it's too big change to be implemented on "main" server. 

[Zutto]

1 hour ago, losiu03 said:

EE is inseparable element of this game and I simply can't imagine this happening. You're saying about late stage of the game when you have 10rr++ but what about first few resets where you have limited stats due to lvl points? I am against this kind of changes coz it would change everything and there would be many unexpected problems after. 

If Inception is your "mother" project it should be tested on max50rr server then as it's too big change to be implemented on "main" server. 

Dont need to depend on ee on low rr's either, if configed

[Pershing]

1 hour ago, Zutto said:

Dont need to depend on ee on low rr's either, if configed

This means they would have to lower monsters' hp, def and dmg, right?

[Mynd33]

29 minutes ago, losiu03 said:

This means they would have to lower monsters' hp, def and dmg, right?

Adjusting and scaling would be ideal, but there is even simpler solution- let us use town buff till max level for first few resets (for example first 5 or 7).

With proper scaling or some help mechanic at early game there is really no reason you would need EE. To be honest the only time you would feel this change would be CS and lack of SD recovery on GM, but that would also mean faster and more dynamic pvp without mindless afk right-clicking someone for 2 minutes, because they get pocketed by EE. I doubt many would miss spamming buffs/sd for whole CS, because design of this character is flawed. In other games besides healing/buffs supports have:  CC and atleast some kind of capability to do dmg, while EE is just buff-bot. That's why people enjoy to play support like EneRF more, because he can atleast do dmg and be independent while still providing supportive buffs that are applied AoE so you don't have to cast them individually OR do boring SD spam. 

OS already improved/balanced many features that webzen messed up (cd on certain op spells/ improved CS system/PvP invasions etc.) so optimal solution would some kind of EE rework, by nerfing buffs and adding new spells (for example Ice Arrow) thus rewarding active EE playstyle and nerfing impact in AFK content (leveling). I am not sure how much buffs need to be nerfed, because even 20%-30% dmg increase is enough to make it must have if you wan't to compete. Maybe during leveling/PvE events remove them at all and only enable during CS/PvP events? 

To sum up, making leveling without EE viable would be HUGE, because as of now it is must have for parties, despite fact that noone actually wants to play her and she spends 24/7 time afk on spot.

[Chuku]

depending on a EE though the whole game i also dont like , because in PVE and PVP for those who dont have EE to rely on will always be weaker to compete ( whitout mentioning that playing EE is boring) , so removing the EE concept and make adjustments to EVENT MOBS and SPOTS etc would be nice

would make the PVP system more balanced , and the PVE a bit more harder and carefuly chosing spots to stay longer to survive whitout the healing and buffs

and whit this "Whitout EE" concept , u could make the 2 max account ip

[ADMIN]