Illusion Temple

[Hvman]

I think the main issue with illusion temple is that warns are abused, you intentionally warn people to not let them do more it. The mechanic is good, i get it, but can't it be really abused?

[Chuku]

u should see when i join IT vs the hardcore boyfriends ^^

[Hvman]

1 hour ago, Chukundah said:

u should see when i join IT vs the hardcore boyfriends ^^

Been there, seen that. But tbh i'd do the same? It's a really good strategy.

[Chuku]

23 minutes ago, Hvman said:

It's a really good strategy.

dont understand why u creating a topic about this then to come contradict ur self after

[Hvman]

12 minutes ago, Chukundah said:

dont understand why u creating a topic about this then to come contradict ur self after

I said, that the mechanic can be abused, not that it's not a good strategy. I never said i agree with it, i've just said it helps. In my opinion, i'd want it to be fixed somehow (have no idea how can it be fixed though) but being "a good strategy" it s a fact. Where do you see contradiction?

[ADMIN]

You live by the sword you die by the sword.

You can both guilds be banned at IT by warning eachother for nothing, or you can both stop it and use your ONLY available warns to ban actual real trolls.

System is exactly the same as on big MOBA games. Nothing gonna be changed about it, maybe only harder punishments periods.

[Wigle]

Give punishment for abusing this please

[Juri]

I think when you have proof with video that people are abusing warn mechanism then they should get max penalty from warns. It's pretty annoying, mechanism is great, but it shouldn't be abused.

On MOBA it's diffrent though - if you will get reports for nothing then it doesn't really mean anthing - system just ignores it most of the time, falsely reporting people in mobas can get you actually banned, so i think it could be good to move into this direction.

[ADMIN]

8 minutes ago, Juri said:

On MOBA it's diffrent though - if you will get reports for nothing then it doesn't really mean anthing - system just ignores it most of the time, falsely reporting people in mobas can get you actually banned, so i think it could be good to move into this direction.

Wrong. If you believe companies like valve or blizzard does check hundreds of game reports (15-60m each) for such things to "verify" if the reports are valid or not, you know it wrong.

If you do a simple research of how does this system works you'll find this:

When a player gets reported it is flagged and gets through an algorithm, then if he gets reported by other people as well, in different games, in a short period of time, for the same reason, his flag will be updated until it reaches a point where he gets banned.

There is close to 0 human interraction in the report systems, everything has a machine behind.

[ADMIN]

What idea I have to add to the current system to reduce such cases is that when you warn someone, you will also receive a warn (2 warn points yourself for giving 3 warn points to a team-mate). In this case, you'll think twice before miss-reporting.

[Juri]

Of course there is 0 human interaction, but those algorhitms first check your performance in game, chat etc Those alghoritms isnt so simple that they just check those flags if you were reported. They also check how you perform in a game itself. You will never get a ban if you play good and people report you for playing bad. Could be good to do the same here - if you actually play, kill enemies, get a ball, use skills etc, false warns should be removed.

[Spawn]

12 hours ago, ADMIN said:

Wrong. If you believe companies like valve or blizzard does check hundreds of game reports (15-60m each) for such things to "verify" if the reports are valid or not, you know it wrong.

If you do a simple research of how does this system works you'll find this:

When a player gets reported it is flagged and gets through an algorithm, then if he gets reported by other people as well, in different games, in a short period of time, for the same reason, his flag will be updated until it reaches a point where he gets banned.

There is close to 0 human interraction in the report systems, everything has a machine behind.

you're wrong my friend, in other MOBA games you have a slim chance of getting against another Guild or even more player. Here we have at least one opponent from another Guild in each competition. I think the idea of a video with abuse is a good idea.

[ADMIN]

3 hours ago, Spawn said:

you're wrong my friend, in other MOBA games you have a slim chance of getting against another Guild or even more player. Here we have at least one opponent from another Guild in each competition. I think the idea of a video with abuse is a good idea.

That's not completely true, based on the game & playerbase.

The players you encounter in your games, especially where it matters (ranked games) are in your MMR range. Which means, you have a very high chance to play with the same players a lot of games.

And yes, speaking from experience not just "technical" point of view.

This is exactly what I personally did, reporting people that I didn't like for "nothing", so I won't get with them in team again, and they got suspended in the end:

This is one of the many examples where I consecutively reported the same players for things they didn't, just because they couldn't behave accordingly.

[Spawn]

Let's be honest, u compare game with 100k+ online in same time with this server where u have 300-400 ppls and active MB 100, divide it on 2-4 (if we talk about IT) and u have 99.9% to play every day with same persons in IT.

Second, its is game where u need a resources, good drop to can play and competing with others, HoS what you gave an example don't have that mechanism, if you miss a couple of games, nothing will happen

[ADMIN]

I don't see any point to continue arguing on this subject, system can be used in any way available, people should educate themselves and that's it. As I said, maybe extra warns for those that warn as well, to be a risk.

Anyway, there are 2 warns in total given in the last 3 days (6x ITs), one of them being an auto-warn for disconnect during IT, I'm not quite sure what's the problem and where is this abuse we're talking about.

[enTaroaduN]

10 hours ago, ADMIN said:

I don't see any point to continue arguing on this subject, system can be used in any way available, people should educate themselves and that's it. As I said, maybe extra warns for those that warn as well, to be a risk.

Anyway, there are 2 warns in total given in the last 3 days (6x ITs), one of them being an auto-warn for disconnect during IT, I'm not quite sure what's the problem and where is this abuse we're talking about.

Let me tell you where the abuse is. If you check this TOPIC RIGHT HERE you will find a player named Gruba that has been reported by my guild mate, dNice, in game and on forum as well. The problem was, I was in Mamelcia's team and dNice was in Gruba's team, so Gruba trolled dNice's team and helped Mamelcia's team to win(the team I was in). I noticed that as well, since Gruba was fighthing mobs instead helping his team, standing afk in base as you can see in the prints attached in that Report Topic against Gruba. We automatically won that game since it was 5vs4, dNice warned Gruba and I tried as well, didn't worked, I don't know why, yet, here it comes the "abuse reason" we are talking about. Mamelcia and Gruba, both warned dNice, just because he warned Gruba. So tell me again, don't you see any abuse point here? Cause I do, imagine if there were more guildmates from Mamelcia, and Gruba's guild, what would've happened then? All of them could warn dNice and ban him from IT, for what reason? For no reason. So why would a player who  tried to win and help his team, would get banned from IT, just because  the system is wrong, and the one who trolled will just be abble to play in IT again and split the prize with the enemy team that he helped to win. Can you see the problem now?
There must be some rules about this IT thing, cause it's a total chaos with this event and not everyone is abble to constantly stay with their video camera on, to film every IT event. Dnice came on forum and reported Gruba, because the /warn system is useless, yet, Gion came with a lazy answer and closed the topic. I can literally see in the prints, Gruba sitting in base and just typing in chat bad words, not helping his team. @Gion next time when you check a report topic on forum, asure you are not in bed on your phone, ready to sleep with your eyes almost closed, but on laptop or pc so you can see the prints as they are, cause I can perfectly see everything in the prints, how can't you? Even tho you couldn't see much about trolling, you could see the bad language he constantly used, and you could warn that player for the language he used, but wait, you need 100 other same topics, with more words, so you can index a bit more in google, instead solve the problem in that topic.

Anyway @ADMIN as @Spawn said, don't compare a game with 100k+ online, with an event with 10 players that only takes place 2 times per day. Since you are giving examples about other game companies, here it is one, take Riot Games for example, the game League of Legends, yea? No need to mention how many players are playing that game at the same time, 5vs5 moba game mode. You know what they do? 99.9%, they manually checking the reports, they watch the replays and decide if there is a good reason to punish the player that was reported, for language, troll, hack, you name it, of course it can last weeks till that player is checked and punished, due to way too many reports, but still, they do it. Because it's the exact same problem as it is here, in your IT event, people just use /warn for no reason, just because they don't like that player, or maybe because they want him banned from IT due to his good plays, or many other reasons that doesn't even makes sense to me, as it doesn't this one here "You can both guild be banned at IT by warning each other for nothing, or you can both stop it and use your ONLY available warns to ban actual real troll". Okey, so let's all warn each other like monkeys, cause that's what we are and let's ban everyone in IT untill nobody would be able to play it anymore(Just an example, not possible, but an example), till the punishment will expire. The difference between here and League of Legends, is that they actually check the reports before punishing that player, unlike here, that the player could get banned from IT even tho he is innocent. So either change the system, either go back to the old fashioned way, reports on forum with proof(prints, videos, etc). I know it's hard what you acomplished here, especially with this old Season 6 files, almost impossible so hats off to you, but some things are unbalanced here, I will consider making a topic about it, later on, depends on how much I care about it, who knows.

[ADMIN]

27 minutes ago, enTaroaduN said:

You know what they do? 99.9%, they manually checking the reports, they watch the replays and decide if there is a good reason to punish the player that was reported, for language, troll, hack, you name it, of course it can last weeks till that player is checked and punished, due to way too many reports, but still, they do it.

I stopped reading here, clearly you're just another keyboard warrior.

LoL (the unmentioned & untouched by me, kid's game):
 

Quote

If you encounter offensive, negative, or disruptive experiences within League of Legends then you can report the offending player at the end of the match. Once a report is made our disciplinary systems will review the game within minutes to determine whether a penalty will be placed. Sometimes (but not always) you will be notified when a player you reported is penalized. The lack of a notification does not mean there was no penalty. 

Quote

Sometimes a player attempts to punish another player by reporting them as a form of retaliation. In a system that relies on honesty, that’s potentially a big problem. We can detect false reports, filter them out, and decrease the effectiveness of future reports from consistently dishonest players. As we continue to build more systems that rely on honest reports, the penalties for false reporting will become more strict.

 

[Juri]

I would just also add reason for warning and if someone doesn't agree with warn then there should procedure to remove it - like admin using logs should check if warn was justified.

Other way is as i wrote, implement algorithm to check if you actually play, getting ball, killing enemies, getting it to your base etc(and not enemy base, this actually should be automatic warn IMHO or even ban if you took a ball from middle and just moved all the way to enemy base).

I think they have custom files anyway, where things like this can be implemented, so it's not such a huge problem, there are many things that are customized, not implemented on webzen servers, so it's not a big issue if can, but either of how much work/money it cost.

@ADMIN

Yea that's what i meant, LoL has automatic systems to prevent report abusers, here is none.

[Pershing]

36 minutes ago, enTaroaduN said:

Let me tell you where the abuse is. If you check this TOPIC RIGHT HERE you will find a player named Gruba that has been reported by my guild mate, dNice, in game and on forum as well. The problem was, I was in Mamelcia's team and dNice was in Gruba's team, so Gruba trolled dNice's team and helped Mamelcia's team to win(the team I was in). I noticed that as well, since Gruba was fighthing mobs instead helping his team, standing afk in base as you can see in the prints attached in that Report Topic against Gruba. We automatically won that game since it was 5vs4, dNice warned Gruba and I tried as well, didn't worked, I don't know why, yet, here it comes the "abuse reason" we are talking about. Mamelcia and Gruba, both warned dNice, just because he warned Gruba. So tell me again, don't you see any abuse point here? Cause I do, imagine if there were more guildmates from Mamelcia, and Gruba's guild, what would've happened then? All of them could warn dNice and ban him from IT, for what reason? For no reason. So why would a player who  tried to win and help his team, would get banned from IT, just because  the system is wrong, and the one who trolled will just be abble to play in IT again and split the prize with the enemy team that he helped to win. Can you see the problem now?
There must be some rules about this IT thing, cause it's a total chaos with this event and not everyone is abble to constantly stay with their video camera on, to film every IT event. Dnice came on forum and reported Gruba, because the /warn system is useless, yet, Gion came with a lazy answer and closed the topic. I can literally see in the prints, Gruba sitting in base and just typing in chat bad words, not helping his team. @Gion next time when you check a report topic on forum, asure you are not in bed on your phone, ready to sleep with your eyes almost closed, but on laptop or pc so you can see the prints as they are, cause I can perfectly see everything in the prints, how can't you? Even tho you couldn't see much about trolling, you could see the bad language he constantly used, and you could warn that player for the language he used, but wait, you need 100 other same topics, with more words, so you can index a bit more in google, instead solve the problem in that topic.

Anyway @ADMIN as @Spawn said, don't compare a game with 100k+ online, with an event with 10 players that only takes place 2 times per day. Since you are giving examples about other game companies, here it is one, take Riot Games for example, the game League of Legends, yea? No need to mention how many players are playing that game at the same time, 5vs5 moba game mode. You know what they do? 99.9%, they manually checking the reports, they watch the replays and decide if there is a good reason to punish the player that was reported, for language, troll, hack, you name it, of course it can last weeks till that player is checked and punished, due to way too many reports, but still, they do it. Because it's the exact same problem as it is here, in your IT event, people just use /warn for no reason, just because they don't like that player, or maybe because they want him banned from IT due to his good plays, or many other reasons that doesn't even makes sense to me, as it doesn't this one here "You can both guild be banned at IT by warning each other for nothing, or you can both stop it and use your ONLY available warns to ban actual real troll". Okey, so let's all warn each other like monkeys, cause that's what we are and let's ban everyone in IT untill nobody would be able to play it anymore(Just an example, not possible, but an example), till the punishment will expire. The difference between here and League of Legends, is that they actually check the reports before punishing that player, unlike here, that the player could get banned from IT even tho he is innocent. So either change the system, either go back to the old fashioned way, reports on forum with proof(prints, videos, etc). I know it's hard what you acomplished here, especially with this old Season 6 files, almost impossible so hats off to you, but some things are unbalanced here, I will consider making a topic about it, later on, depends on how much I care about it, who knows.

I would like to confirm this. I’m not sure if we are talking about the same IT but we had pretty similar situation with Gruba and Mamelcia. Gruba is obviously one of Formoza’s ppl alt and he helps Mamlecia’s team to win IT. I’ve seen them participating IT together couple of times. In our case Gruba was in my team, Mamelcia in opposite so Gruba just took obelisk and was going towards Mamelcia’s tower just to let them register faster. Obviously everyone warned Gruba straight after but has it changed anything? Not really. They won easily cuz Gruba was actually their 6th player. Not sure if there is anything to do with IT unless there are players like these

[Juri]

Yea actions like this should be automatic ban for max days possible imho, like if you take a ball, you have it all the time from mid, not died and moved to enemy base. This is obvious anti-play which should have max punishment, despite warn mechanism. I think this should be easy enough to detect.