Phoenix Early-Game Feedback

[ADMIN]

Hello,

Feel free to drop your feedback related to the Phoenix #3 early game. Things like what you liked, what you disliked, what can be improved/removed, etc., are welcome!

This can help us to offer you a better early-game experience on both Phoenix #4 as well as the next Inception (if your feedback can be adapted for it).

Cheers!

[Phantomel]

Just my opinion, breaks were too long and it promotes the afk gaming style. I'd rather have 5-6 quests as requirement for reset, making the game interactive for everyone in terms of PvP and PvM, and have just 2 breaks instead of how it is now.
-Event materials are very hard to come by, and once you get into the event, you get drops of lower level materials than the ones that you need, making it very hard to keep up with events and almost no reason to buy the PRO vip with the extra entries.
-Make low tier ancients more accessible so people can actually use them earlier when they are useful, instead of just piling them up for feather or seed combinations.
-Raise the density of the monsters in lower BC/DS a bit, cause a lot of people were complaining about the exp on spot being better than going to events and wasting chaoses.

Next, not really feedback about the early game or phoenix, but more general regarding golden invasions. I know it is pretty hard and it took you a while to get the system running as it is right now, but I would re think the way that this event works.
-Most of the old players that are familiar with the server already know spawn points of budges/derkons/GGD, which makes it harder for new people that join on the server keep up with the others instead of the gear.
-What I would do - I would keep the ideea of Golden hour, but instead of all goldens spawning at a random time in that hour, making the golden invasion "hour" rather last for max. 10 minutes, I think that it would be better for the goldens to randomly spawn for 1 hour time, not all at once, making the invasion more interactive and from my opinion more fun for everyone.

[ADMIN]

21 hours ago, Phantomel said:

Just my opinion, breaks were too long and it promotes the afk gaming style. I'd rather have 5-6 quests as requirement for reset, making the game interactive for everyone in terms of PvP and PvM, and have just 2 breaks instead of how it is now.
-Event materials are very hard to come by, and once you get into the event, you get drops of lower level materials than the ones that you need, making it very hard to keep up with events and almost no reason to buy the PRO vip with the extra entries.
-Make low tier ancients more accessible so people can actually use them earlier when they are useful, instead of just piling them up for feather or seed combinations.
-Raise the density of the monsters in lower BC/DS a bit, cause a lot of people were complaining about the exp on spot being better than going to events and wasting chaoses.

Next, not really feedback about the early game or phoenix, but more general regarding golden invasions. I know it is pretty hard and it took you a while to get the system running as it is right now, but I would re think the way that this event works.
-Most of the old players that are familiar with the server already know spawn points of budges/derkons/GGD, which makes it harder for new people that join on the server keep up with the others instead of the gear.
-What I would do - I would keep the ideea of Golden hour, but instead of all goldens spawning at a random time in that hour, making the golden invasion "hour" rather last for max. 10 minutes, I think that it would be better for the goldens to randomly spawn for 1 hour time, not all at once, making the invasion more interactive and from my opinion more fun for everyone.

While I do agree with low ancients & the mats thingy, I can't agree with the rest of things.

Firstly, and most importantly, this is a low exp non-reset based server. Finishing the 1st and most beautiful part (non-reset gameplay) in 32 days is fast enough, maybe even faster than expected. The beautiful part of low exp servers are the struggle and the feeling of progression, anything even faster than this is not fun at all, and makes me think of medium/high exp servers, which is not something we promote (i.e our last edition that had the even faster 1-400 progression and people couldn't enjoy the non-reset feeling). AFK is the strongest reason why most grown up people still play this game, because even if they can't be fully active like some of the top players, they can still enjoy the game and not be too far behind, by staying AFK. You had a lot of PvP & PvM activities across level 1-400, and more importantly, most of them were with people in same range of levels, not a big difference, which made it even more fun.

Secondly, you can't compare 4-6 mobs from spots on a 10s respawn time vs 10+ mobs with fast respawn, on DS & BC. Not adding up the rewards from the events. Most people from top had such advantage in exp due to going on most BC & DS. 

Thirdly, related to your statement about invasions, it is fake news. Goldens does spawn in 10x 10y and 240x 240y range, randomly. There are no set spots to spawn except of Bloody Queen, Medusa, Kundun and probably few more HIGH bosses. Neither WW, Goldens, Rabbits, etc. have any set spot, just 10-240 random coords.

Thanks for your input! 🙂

[Phantomel]

I know that in theory low DS/BC are a good way of getting xp, and they are, up from a point. But I can give you examples of parties that were in top 40 and they didn't do a single event early(that's when I complained about DS4 being hard) and lower DS's were not so much different than spot xp. Kill rate was very low in DS4 and mobs were hitting like a truck(very well geared party, paired up with an ERF).

About invasions, I know they have some RNG side, but I'm pretty sure that once you know some spawns, you have waayyyyy higher chances of finding it than some others, there are spots on the map that I found the budge for like 3 consecutive invasions. Also, what's your opinion on my ideea of one hour random spawns, I remember playing on a server that had this feature and it was very nice, everyone had chances of finding random spawns in that hour, and the /invasion command that we have on the server would make this feature way better. Maybe it's not worth to implement it for regular boks, but it would be great to at least have this implemented for budges/derkons/ggds.

Also, instead of a break, some quest system lets say at lvl 250 would be more fun. Just make 2-3 simple quests instead of a break in order to advance past that level(such as Craft w2, hunt x bok 1-2 goldens, win 3 ccs etc). I do agree with you that breaks are a nice catch up system for the guys that were left behind in terms of level, but what I can also guarantee you is that most players didn't like the breaks at all(even though they are something necessary to ensure healthy gameplay and that everyone is close to each other in terms of exp.) We also have the exp boost for people outside rank 100, which is another good addition and helps catching up as well. 

[ADMIN]

4 minutes ago, Phantomel said:

I know that in theory low DS/BC are a good way of getting xp, and they are, up from a point. But I can give you examples of parties that were in top 40 and they didn't do a single event early(that's when I complained about DS4 being hard) and lower DS's were not so much different than spot xp. Kill rate was very low in DS4 and mobs were hitting like a truck(very well geared party, paired up with an ERF).

About invasions, I know they have some RNG side, but I'm pretty sure that once you know some spawns, you have waayyyyy higher chances of finding it than some others, there are spots on the map that I found the budge for like 3 consecutive invasions. Also, what's your opinion on my ideea of one hour random spawns, I remember playing on a server that had this feature and it was very nice, everyone had chances of finding random spawns in that hour, and the /invasion command that we have on the server would make this feature way better. Maybe it's not worth to implement it for regular boks, but it would be great to at least have this implemented for budges/derkons/ggds.

Also, instead of a break, some quest system lets say at lvl 250 would be more fun. Just make 2-3 simple quests instead of a break in order to advance past that level(such as Craft w2, hunt x bok 1-2 goldens, win 3 ccs etc). I do agree with you that breaks are a nice catch up system for the guys that were left behind in terms of level, but what I can also guarantee you is that most players didn't like the breaks at all(even though they are something necessary to ensure healthy gameplay and that everyone is close to each other in terms of exp.) We also have the exp boost for people outside rank 100, which is another good addition and helps catching up as well. 

You can't speak about BC & DS as Events when you're just referring to some "harder" ones. Well before discussing further more on this spot EXP vs DS/BC EXP we can do anytime a test on test-server with a full party in BC/DS for 15/20 min vs a full party on normal spots, for 15/20 min. Then we can talk facts. Oh yea, that's for sure if some of the levels are harder you won't surpass spot exp, but it has nothing to do with the number of mobs from the event, just the difficulty. 
Having people on top 40 without a single event is not impossible, but being in top 40 without a single event AND also participating at all invasions, pvp, etc. activities is impossible. Of course that some character that stay in spot 24/7 will gain same or even more exp than a character that goes to all events and lose a lot of exp-time for that. It is a no-brain.

I repeat, there are no set locations, having goldens spawn on same locations on multiple invasions doesn't mean they are spawning there, does mean the RNG hitted that zone multiple times. Having the luck to upgrade multiple items in a row from x to + x without failing doesn't mean the rate is 100%, just as if you fail multiple times in a row at 85%+, doesn't mean it has 0% chance. It's all about RNG, and it can hit in similar ways or totally different.
Your feature has both ups and downs so I don't know what to say about it. Yes, you'll have "more chances" to catch something, but in the same time, there will be a high chance that the same player(s) will get even more goldens. Right now it is pretty balanced because you need to choose where to go at invasion, you can't farm all of them. Do I want to fight for GGD? I go to GGD. Do I want to farm Derkon? I farm Derkon. Do I want to compete for the Budges? I go to Budges. Choosing any of them will mean, most of the times, losing the rest of them in the favor of others. While with such feature the same player(s) can get both GGD, Budges, Derkons and even more, without the risk of losing any of them.

Quests to pass some low level - big yikes. Of course that most HIGH active players won't like such breaks, every1 wants to have the biggest balls in a virtual game and make the rest of players just "spectators". Difference was like 50 levels at first break between top1 and top 100, I don't even want to imagine how this game would look without such breaks. Having only 5-10% of players having fun and rest of them being just an online counter boost. But hei, we care about those 90-95% that keeps a server alive, and that's never gonna change.

[Something]

1) I have read another post about MG/DL lvl requirement for maps. I know it is a good thing to be possible to donate for some advantage but the gap level should be more reasonable. I laugh at admin answers on that post, bro top MG/DL can farm weapons/ gear non exe and sell them like dd+hp items for 3-4 days or even more. I agree to have some advantages but that is too much.

2) As Phantolemu said, goldens are spawn often in the same spot. Last days I found derkon by search 3-4 spots and don't need to check every map. Same for budge where u can see often the same players who kill it.

3) In this database BK is way too tank, no matter if is 300 lvl or 400lvl. They are too hard to kill and in CS almost impossible only if 4-6 characters focus on him.

4) DS6 elf character can't resist even with +12+dd set / w2, I think that is very wrong and regard as point 3 this database is mixed up. Inception was more balance after DL nerf(make elf a little more tanky).

5) About BC, eneMG only with chromatic staff (no double dmg, no edr on staff or pend, no kriss) did most dmg on statue/gate several time.

6) BC/DS is worth only for reward.

7) Derkon is killed by farmers happened not only once (make it stronger in dmg). 

8. Share information about bounty, everyone wants to know when we can drop them not only old players should know that (flame). 

9. I do not even bother to enter IT as many players: HC make anti game, pewpew reported by roleX enter all the time, same players are all the time, etc. There are lots of problems and some players exploit them.

10. My party with eneRF good sets all dd+12/w2 and also tried with dsr can't resist vulcanus non stop(only 3-4h), but somehow avici with dsr and 1 day with lvl 1 wings was perfectly fine + they didn't have eneRF (I can't believe they made repot every 2 hours for 1 week).  

11. It will be nice instead of a market to be able to use a character personal store to expose items. 

12. Make low tier ancients more accessible so people can actually use them earlier when they are useful, instead of just piling them up for feather or seed combinations

13. DS7 is easier then DS6

 

Per total, you're doing a great job, but stop saying is not a pay-to-win game.

[salam]

Likes:

- Mercenary squad system - rewarding, fair and engaging

- Arena system looks good, except for LMS with class limit. I won because i was the only DL there, doing horse rides for 10 minutes. Maybe move class edition on Monday and leave FFA on last day?

 

Dislikes:

- some non exc items missing from the game, but their exc counter-parts are still there (Raven Stick, Sword Dancer). I don't understand why, they would be worse than BoK+5 weapons

- removing rings non exc +2-4 doesn't make sense if the exc rings can drop +2-4. Makes crowd control spells extremely OP in the start and they will be ditched as soon as you get an exc replacement.

- the META is having 2 main chars and 2-4 farmers in lower maps. Going full Mamed mode with 6 chars is simply OP in terms of zen/jwls income. Who wants to pass the 2 accounts/IP will do so easily, especially with a 2nd PC/laptop. Farming cannot be removed from Mu, this is the core of the game, but take a stroll from devias 2 to atlans 3 and you will see what i mean. If it's possible it would be nice for the drop rate (items and zen) to increase with the number of players in the party, just like XP

- removal of EE and nerfing of mobs made access to high level maps too easy. There were level 300-320 parties afking at Karutan2 with 1 week gear because some builds/sets are too effective without EE. Same with Vulcanus later. This is a reset server, it's not necessary and fun to stay in the same maps for all 5 resets. Maybe you should be able to AFK at Vulcanus only a bit later in the game

- introduction of w3 mats in IT5-6 at 1st reset is too early, maybe unlock this later. W3 are supposed to be near end items, not month 1 items. In general, maybe some content should be released slower for RR DBs

- AE Ice arrow is a crowd control spell, not damage. Also, Hybrid AE is too strong in PVM

 

Suggestions (mostly for future DBs)

- fix non excellent drops for GD Armor, Hurricane armor and other high end sets dropping in too high maps, making them useless. At level 395 (when you can go to Swamp) it's NPC fodder. GD armor could drop at Raklion 1st mobs for example, +0.

- agree on golden and other spawn spots, they can be learned. i imagine they have more statistical chances to spawn in big rooms in certain maps. maybe the random formulas can be tweaked further

[hellldrake]

DL horse skill with  Bypass. 

Why?

The Horse has nothing to do with a weapon's bypass. It's a complete different part.

I'm not sure if this is a bug or it's supposed to be this way but any DL will one shot you with the horse bypass, no matter how much HP u have.

 

[Pershing]

On 5/9/2021 at 10:30 AM, Something said:

9. I do not even bother to enter IT as many players: HC make anti game, pewpew reported by roleX enter all the time, same players are all the time, etc. There are lots of problems and some players exploit them.

I must agree on this. HC is doing anti game every single IT because they managed to find a way how to enter the event very fast and most of the time there is majority of HC players inside against others. Admin tried to sort it out by implementing warning system but it works the opposite of what was expected as HC players constantly warn people who actually don’t do anti game. Not really sure if there is anything else to do with IT to make it fair for everyone. Maybe max 3-5 people from one ally can join the event at the time? I don’t know if that would be technically possible to implement. 

[Phantomel]

Next we're going to limit 1 party per guild in ds/bc, right? ROFL. Git gud. Whole server antigamed us by going V gens, so who cares. Of course if we are 8 or 9 inside IT we will strategically go for more rewards for our guild. Antigame is when 1 people from a team trolls the others when everyone is playing the game for real.

[Spawn]

IT join system, its rly broken now, i don't remember what is reason to change it but now for shure in last IT ppls join just with scripts or some esle programs. Earlier its sistem its be much better when u can open IT menu 5-10 minutes before the start.

Alts who farm Zen & jwls. A lot of projects i see how u(Admin) try to change somthink to release low-level maps from farmers, mb better to increase jwls drop on hight mapts and decrease on low, and same make with zen. I know what drop zen is proportional of ur exp, will be good if u can divide normal exp from ML and increase drop zen for that segment(ML) if I'm not mistaken curent zen formula is ur exp*2.5, mb up that especially for ML.

Exe items from Bok, i disagree from start with system where u can get higer item from lower bok, becouse its a little stupid to going and farm bok for especially one item set but a lot of time u get higer tier item but completly usles for u. A 1-2 weeks ago our guild get mb 70% of all boks+3 but we cant find a normal gear from that. While many people had items with 2 options without killing a single gold one. And i don't talk about market and trade because we too monitoring and buying items.

Gold medal, i think him drop too late, and items from him is too bad if we compare stage and map where u can get it. 

SM Teleport, can u repair it and make him KD after her use but no just klick/misclick

 

[Grazynka]

1. Poison in BC 7-8

The most stupid things what i see here is poison which works on statue at bc. Only sm (and mg but it doesnt happens very often)  won this event from lvl 7-8. Gear isnt important - you can join as 5 sm with w1 and won bc8 against full w3 perfect pt. Even AE can be counter by good pt or when you dont let her take ggood posiotion on statue. Imo poison shouldnt works at statue in bc. People abuse this fact and make 5 sm only for this event - its made this event unplayable for other class.

2. Summoner against SBK

This matchup is totally broken. Agaisnt agibk summoner can win, but if bk add mostly str and vit, he just oneshot summonet. I can accept oneshot when someone kill me with bypass, but str - vit bk can kill you on every combo in this matchup. When i got hit by bypass from single cyclone i stay alive with 50 hp. Someone can say that vit/str bk can be killed easier (kite them etc.) - but most of our top bk just extend skill range (nope it isnt visual) - if we cant stop this just think about it at balance phase. 

3. MG/DL - early tp at 0 rr

Maybe you remember that before this db start i ask about change earlier tp for dl/mg/rf at 0 rr. You said that its never happen before to start as 5 mg/dls, and it isnt worth to play this composition. This db show you that atleast 4 pt which was top start as dl's and mg. My opinion is actual that this composition is too strong (top spot holders) to give them also ealier tp, which can give them even more advantages. 

4. IT warn system

As you see everyone have other definition of antigame - for phantomelu antigame is when someone else (not from hc) want win reward. I know that is hard to make this system fair, but we should try improve it. For example change, that information about warn doesnt show for everyone was pretty decent, but still warn system provide patologies, when all guild warn player, only bcs he play well. Next good change can be limited warn system only to your pt (why opposite pt can warn someone in other team?). 

Imo, this event provide awesome rewards and should be more controling by GM's. Maybe its time to support Gion with someone who can join as spectator on IT and controling players behaviour. Its 30 min per day and not every event have to be spectate. 

Next idea, its just change way to enter on this event. Im not sure that is possible to do but probably best way could be sign to this event and participant can be rolled from people who registered like 2 min before start. 

[Phantomel]

So much crying over one event. As I said, get better at entering IT and you do the same as us. We don't care if you root for your guild to getting more rewards, it is what it is. Everyone is doing antigame so that the team who has the most guild players win, but we dont cry about it and we dont warn cause we understand how it is. GL in your future IT  journeys 😄
 

Also, I have to agree with Grazynka's point 3. On a normal, non RR server, you only have those early tp's as a mechanism to catch up on the others, since you first have to level to 150, and after that you are able to create tier 2 classes, so you start leveling once again. Here that lower level teleport is creating a huge gap and is giving more than just level advantages to player who stack up as mg/dl team.  

[Phantomel]

On 5/12/2021 at 2:31 AM, Grazynka said:

 

2. Summoner against SBK

This matchup is totally broken. Agaisnt agibk summoner can win, but if bk add mostly str and vit, he just oneshot summonet. I can accept oneshot when someone kill me with bypass, but str - vit bk can kill you on every combo in this matchup. When i got hit by bypass from single cyclone i stay alive with 50 hp. Someone can say that vit/str bk can be killed easier (kite them etc.) - but most of our top bk just extend skill range (nope it isnt visual) - if we cant stop this just think about it at balance phase. 

You probably have like 1600-1700 ene with ~200-300 agi and like 800 total hp after berserk, you also lack a few DD's since ancients and reflect ring, so what do you expect  I can assure you that the "extend skill range" is just visual, you just have to see a BK PoV and compare it to what you see on your screen.

[salam]

IMO the custom damage percentage class vs class is way overdone. For example damage done to SM is too low. That's why people use them as stampers in CS. Bit weird if you ask me

[BachuS]

please increase the drop rate of Q 380 items, I'm seriously thinking of quitting because of this Q

[hellldrake]

Maybe a small nerf for Summoner pvp dmg? it is insanely high, i cannot even get close to them to actually start attacking.