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Hvman

Class Ballance.

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I'm opening this topic maybe players have something in mind to ballance the classes even more that Admin will enjoy and implement.

My ideas are :

DL - Nerf his pvp dmg by 5%, add his PVM dmg 5%

AE - Boost his PVP dmg by 7 to 9% and/or make him get higher hp/1vit point.

EMG-Boost his pvp dmg if he's that low hp/def, by at least 8-9%

SMG- Increase his defens and/or hp/1vit point and lower his dmg by 3 to 5%

VRF- dunno, fix it, he's broken. 15rr has way better singletarget than ae, unkillable in pvp, tears through any sm/summ/mg/ae even BK easily. Can't kill DL cause DL is more broken atm XD.

BK - i think admin really likes BK to be OP as long as Zutto plays him XD I think he needs a bit of work, his def is low (we tested set+12 full ddi, w2+11) , maybe add 3-4% to his def, since the rest will be covered by w3.

Summ- I think summ is just fine as it is.

SM- Haven't tested it yet, i think his icestorm does a bit too much dmg(pvm), but just by seeing it, didn't have the chance to test it.

Feel free to come with different ideas, maybe they will be usefull.

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I don't mind free chat topics, but the idea of having all chars same on resistance / damage is wrong.

Classes must look like following (for PvP):

Melee:
SMG: Medium to play at full potential, High burst damage, Low resistance.
VRF: Easy to play at full potential, Medium damage, Medium resistance.
ABK: Hard to play at full potential, Medium-High burst damage, Medium-High resistance.

Range:
SM: Medium to play at full potential, Medium damage, High resistance.
AE: Easy-Medium to play at full potential, Medium damage, Low-Medium resistance.
DL: Easy to play at full potential, Medium-High damage, Medium-High resistance.
SUM: Easy to play at full potential (normal PvP), Hard to play at full potential (Duel, CS): High burst damage, Low resistance.

No PvP / Low-PvP, untouched builds:
EMG
ARF
ERF

Then the difference between some "more similar" chars are in terms of other utilities (CS impact / roles, different events impact, buffs, etc.) and PvM / Hunt power.

Our tweaks will always keep this details in mind, as the final result.
 


"The only way to do great work is to love what you do" - Steve Jobs

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45 minutes ago, Hvman said:

BK - i think admin really likes BK to be OP as long as Zutto plays him XD I think he needs a bit of work, his def is low (we tested set+12 full ddi, w2+11) , maybe add 3-4% to his def, since the rest will be covered by w3

as long every BK has a gaming mouse to create macro and adjust whit in game speed , everyone can be "OP" whit bk 👍

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Nerf Dl defense .. or w/e , i played 1 illusion temple , there is no real possible ways to kill Dl with an orb .. So = no point to go IT and get warned and banned from it , just because you do nothing .! :D I would suggest to remove Dl horse from IT =More balanced  

IF Dont beleave me just Test it by your self , i mean kill With the same stats points and same wepons  a DL with horse and average dd +12 set

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Decreasing DLs movement speed would also help balance the fights, I know it's his main attribute, but one of many..

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2 hours ago, Chukundah said:

as long every BK has a gaming mouse to create macro and adjust whit in game speed , everyone can be "OP" whit bk 👍

I invite you to create any macro you want and then choose a duel with either me, gion or legion on same build / items / and so on as you choose (2 chars cloned). If you lose you're out from this community if you win I give you 5000 credits. Normal duel first to reach 10 points. Let me know if you agree so we can set it up and stream it as well, if you don't then just never post anything as you're talking more than playing.


"The only way to do great work is to love what you do" - Steve Jobs

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20 minutes ago, ADMIN said:

I invite you to create any macro you want and then choose a duel with either me, gion or legion on same build / items / and so on as you choose (2 chars cloned). If you lose you're out from this community if you win I give you 5000 credits. Normal duel first to reach 10 points. Let me know if you agree so we can set it up and stream it as well, if you don't then just never post anything as you're talking more than playing.

ive dueled already in phoenix someone u adore so much and uses macro and i was whit summoner , was close win for me 9-10 , i didnt say using macro to combo makes u immortal , its helps whit combo and free's you to use qqqqq whitout 123 at same time and increases ur chances of killing and not dying cause u qqqq and 123.

after that , it comes down to stats + items , i dont want ur invitations for anything , what i said is not a lie , if u have better gear+stats and a good macro settings on ur gaming mouse u can perform better than someone that dont have

now for the topic subject

DL's are overperforming other class's at 14-15rr's , rest of class's are ok

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1 hour ago, ADMIN said:

I invite you to create any macro you want and then choose a duel with either me, gion or legion on same build / items / and so on as you choose (2 chars cloned). If you lose you're out from this community if you win I give you 5000 credits. Normal duel first to reach 10 points. Let me know if you agree so we can set it up and stream it as well, if you don't then just never post anything as you're talking more than playing.

this offer is only valid for him or any person who eats it   ? :D 

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1 hour ago, Chukundah said:

ive dueled already in phoenix someone u adore so much and uses macro and i was whit summoner , was close win for me 9-10 , i didnt say using macro to combo makes u immortal , its helps whit combo and free's you to use qqqqq whitout 123 at same time and increases ur chances of killing and not dying cause u qqqq and 123.

after that , it comes down to stats + items , i dont want ur invitations for anything , what i said is not a lie , if u have better gear+stats and a good macro settings on ur gaming mouse u can perform better than someone that dont have

now for the topic subject

DL's are overperforming other class's at 14-15rr's , rest of class's are ok

What you're right about ? the macro really helps those who can play and only them. I believe that the main problem here is in the test server and free stats change on IT and CS. This game has not old MuOnline become the game where to be at the top you had to correctly set the stats, find a good set and fight for each Boss. Now having a test server, most people just honed their stats, the other half copied them. Now it is not the mind that dominates, the understanding of the game and strategy, but the time that you devote to the game.

Lets GM-s only have stats reset on CS, IT with ur owner stats, and remove test server on next edition. 

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6 hours ago, Chukundah said:

as long every BK has a gaming mouse to create macro and adjust whit in game speed , everyone can be "OP" whit bk 👍

That's why you are so good as bk :-?

2 hours ago, Spawn said:

What you're right about ? the macro really helps those who can play and only them. I believe that the main problem here is in the test server and free stats change on IT and CS. This game has not old MuOnline become the game where to be at the top you had to correctly set the stats, find a good set and fight for each Boss. Now having a test server, most people just honed their stats, the other half copied them. Now it is not the mind that dominates, the understanding of the game and strategy, but the time that you devote to the game.

Lets GM-s only have stats reset on CS, IT with ur owner stats, and remove test server on next edition. 

Remove test server just because you do not like to test stuff? Some of us really enjoy testing stupid builds and see if they are working on testserver. + some MLVLS are bugged and cannot be fixed, so you would not know that unless you test it.

P.S. Your idea of 1v1'ing you @ADMIN could be a funny idea for an event if you got some hours to joke around with players. I think would bring the comunity closer to you, or @Gion since he's the community administrator.

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7 hours ago, ADMIN said:

I don't mind free chat topics, but the idea of having all chars same on resistance / damage is wrong.

Classes must look like following (for PvP):

Melee:
SMG: Medium to play at full potential, High burst damage, Low resistance.
VRF: Easy to play at full potential, Medium damage, Medium resistance.
ABK: Hard to play at full potential, Medium-High burst damage, Medium-High resistance.

Range:
SM: Medium to play at full potential, Medium damage, High resistance.
AE: Easy-Medium to play at full potential, Medium damage, Low-Medium resistance.
DL: Easy to play at full potential, Medium-High damage, Medium-High resistance.
SUM: Easy to play at full potential (normal PvP), Hard to play at full potential (Duel, CS): High burst damage, Low resistance.

No PvP / Low-PvP, untouched builds:
EMG
ARF
ERF

Then the difference between some "more similar" chars are in terms of other utilities (CS impact / roles, different events impact, buffs, etc.) and PvM / Hunt power.

Our tweaks will always keep this details in mind, as the final result.
 

Sorry for double posting, i couldn't quote you on my previous one.

I agree with your "general idea" BUT:

DL atm is broken, simply too much dmg and def.

AE in my opinion is far from easy-medium to play. You need perfect-pitch position, being able to sustain icearrow while not dieing when you closely focus someone. I was dueling Exilia which with my DL, using 2 items, and he could barely kill me while i was not moving.

If summ is engaging in battlemap fights (since debuffs are not working non-battle) he has to do: Buff himself, Reflect his party, Sleep Enemies, Debuff Enemies, Do DMG, Avoid Death. (imo, as i said, summ is fine in my opinion as it is right now)

SMG i think it's okish, maybe i was overzealous.

VRF in my opinion has the biggest advantage because : Easy to play at full potential, Medium(kinda high in my opinion with a trick or 2)damage and his resistance is far from medium ^_^ (also we are mid-game not late-game so that's why my opinion that vrf is overachieving, especially pvm single target)

I don't like abk, i don't enjoy playing that build, so i cannot comment on that and also did 0 test on sm so same here.

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18 minutes ago, Hvman said:

That's why you are so good as bk :-?

Remove test server just because you do not like to test stuff? Some of us really enjoy testing stupid builds and see if they are working on testserver. + some MLVLS are bugged and cannot be fixed, so you would not know that unless you test it.

P.S. Your idea of 1v1'ing you @ADMIN could be a funny idea for an event if you got some hours to joke around with players. I think would bring the comunity closer to you, or @Gion since he's the community administrator.

That's right, this is the main feature of MuOnline that sets It apart from other MMORPG games, its own build and not just what the game offers you, think in real time what stat u need is at the moment or in future. Now there is almost one Assembly for each class.

Why do you always complain about the balance or different aspects of the game ? Your balance now is how much time you devote to the game and how much money you are willing to spend here if you don't have time. And I'm being completely objective.

 You brought here such beautiful formulas, wrote what and how much % you need to nerf or up, and the meaning? if you have the opportunity to go through all this again on the Test server and find the Golden formula again. A weak point can always be found by having the source code for this, and you can polish it indefinitely because for some characters there are formulas that are combined with others and the result is a huge mess.

I dont like to test stuff ?  don't make me laugh.

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5 hours ago, Chukundah said:

after that , it comes down to stats + items , i dont want ur invitations for anything , what i said is not a lie , if u have better gear+stats and a good macro settings on ur gaming mouse u can perform better than someone that dont have

Those that depend on macros to play BK will never play it at its full potential, and if you as player can't pass a macro level on combo you shouldn't play BK at all.

What is actually a macro?

It is a registered sequence of keys pressed either by keyboard or mouse, or both, that goes on an repeat loop, based on the speed and etc. you initially set.

Why it sucks compared to *good* player skills?

  • If you get "stucked" (which always happens on PvP, the moment your character stops from attacking by having a "hurt" animation) your macro will continue its sequence and combo will fail (as you are stucked, can't get out those skills) -> combo fails. If player skill is involved -> player does stop the combo sequence during the stuck moment and continue after it -> Combo succeeds.
  • If you get stunned (by BK mace ML, sleep, ice arrow, etc.) your macro sequence will continue but your skills won't -> combo fails. If player skill is involved you can control it, either restart it if you don't have time or finish the remaining skills -> Combo succeeds.
  • If you get "pushed" by either other skills (earthquake, lightning, other bk/mg weapon skills) or even by your own weapon skill (cyclone/etc.) - your character will move a bit before continuing the actions you put him to do - your macro sequence will continue but your skills won't -> combo fails. If player skill is involved, you can control it, same story.
  • If you miss the cyclone skill (purely "MISS", due to ASR/DSR PvP) - your macro sequence will continue but combo won't work as 1st skill missed. If player skill is involved then you do another cyclone until you don't miss so your combo can work.

And so on, just the most important aspects where macro sucks, which are in most of cases. The only actual use for such macro where it does help is on PvM or stationary targets that doesn't attack back.

5 hours ago, Spawn said:

this offer is only valid for him or any person who eats it   ? :D

Especially for him, but for anyone that thinks he can beat good (even if rusty) BK skills with a "macro", and only with a macro. I don't neglect people's actual real skill on BK, as I know very few BKs, but for sure I know that any decent BK can beat a macro and I'm personally up to prove it anytime, and I'm sure Gion is up as well, not sure if Legion wants / have the time but he's another good BK I trust on the job.


"The only way to do great work is to love what you do" - Steve Jobs

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10 hours ago, ADMIN said:

I don't mind free chat topics, but the idea of having all chars same on resistance / damage is wrong.



Range:
AE: Easy-Medium to play at full potential, Medium damage, Low-Medium resistance.
 

Yes, technically it's ranged class since we can shoot the arrows from a far, but if we ever wanna actually deal any damage, we kinda have to stay in melee range. Multishot dmg cuts off big time if we stand even one tile away from the closest possible position of the target. And with ice arrow or penetration it's not possible to kill anyone that's even remotely close to the gear / stats you have. 

Another thing that should be taken into consideration is that weapon upgrades ain't gonna do a shit for us. The difference between +12 and +15 bow is roughly around 60 damage. Maybe it's the same for bk/smg/dl, idk since i didn't test it. But meanwhile sm and summoner benefits around 2k dmg from this upgrade at this point of the game. And the gap is going to get even higher after every reset.


exisig2abb.png

    no snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible

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With regards to PVM , elf is supposed to be top hunter ,along with ene mg , but the only chars i see now winning in BC is VRF . even stealing weapons from 2 AE + aruan sets , wings lvl 3 and consumables.

Ae is also wasting 4k points for a skill  ,  that means we are fighting with 2rr  in minus , and that makes a big difference at this stage.

I suggest maybe let us use 10% of our buffs if we are beeing made to use so many points for a skill.

HP per vitality point could be increased slightly.

Going to PVP - again Vrf is a beast, DL is super OP (as we all know), the  rest of the cars are manageable ,but that might be only because of my gear and wings ( to be continued)

I would like to enjoy AE until the end of the database ,not just until this point in time. 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, hellldrake said:

With regards to PVM , elf is supposed to be top hunter ,along with ene mg , but the only chars i see now winning in BC is VRF . even stealing weapons from 2 AE + aruan sets , wings lvl 3 and consumables.

Ae is also wasting 4k points for a skill  ,  that means we are fighting with 2rr  in minus , and that makes a big difference at this stage.

I suggest maybe let us use 10% of our buffs if we are beeing made to use so many points for a skill.

HP per vitality point could be increased slightly.

Going to PVP - again Vrf is a beast, DL is super OP (as we all know), the  rest of the cars are manageable ,but that might be only because of my gear and wings ( to be continued)

I would like to enjoy AE until the end of the database ,not just until this point in time. 

 

 

 

u put ene for ice arrow, vit for survive and after u say what Vrf beat u in PvM. Focus ur build in once direction and after compare classes

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3 minutes ago, Spawn said:

u put ene for ice arrow, vit for survive and after u say what Vrf beat u in PvM. Focus ur build in once direction and after compare classes

lol,so its ok for VRF to be top PVM and top PVP, but im not allowed to be on the same page? its clearly stated that the server is trying to be as balanced as possible so i dont see why i shouldn't be allowed to have both.

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@Spawn i focus my build in one direction but still i loose. it could be fair if arf was on same level with ae(pure pvm) since he sacrifice his pvp capabilities but vrf >ae( pure pvm) is just a joke.... next please

P.S and the rfs i were compete with hadnt mlvl dd yet

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57 minutes ago, hellldrake said:

lol,so its ok for VRF to be top PVM and top PVP, but im not allowed to be on the same page? its clearly stated that the server is trying to be as balanced as possible so i dont see why i shouldn't be allowed to have both.

In server description cleary say what Aelf is weak in pvp, I too want all classes to be same in pvp but we have it,its admin judges.

Vrf have low pvmDsr and mb he can beat u on BC or rabbits coz they don't have a lot Dsr, but on medusa/selupan and mb kundun Vrf have low DPS. MB if admin will rise dsr on Bc statues that will be resolve situation.

49 minutes ago, TOMMYskillfiger said:

@Spawn i focus my build in one direction but still i loose. it could be fair if arf was on same level with ae(pure pvm) since he sacrifice his pvp capabilities but vrf >ae( pure pvm) is just a joke.... next please

P.S and the rfs i were compete with hadnt mlvl dd yet

Mate, u don't play here first day, u know de rules, descriptions and if u make Arf u understand her strong and weak parts. Rf can easy make rebuild if something going wrong and make Vrf but elf don't have same possibilities 

 

P.S. next please

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So, if I understand this well, you want AE to be as strong as RF is in pvp. Let me remind you that until 15 resets the RF was a total joke. BK is the worst in PVM BY FAR and BK's still get their ass kicked in pvp by other classes somehow, due to our very low capacity to CC or gap close on them. Elf is supposed to be insane in PVM early/mid and mediocre in pvp(though I'm pretty sure elf kicks ass, and excepting DL they can still win vs other classes in pvp due to their insane burst). Will you guys do anything about destruction(higher slow chance)? And if you guys will not buff the bk in pvp(it's the only unchanged class since the start of the DB), can you at least buff a bit his pvm capabilities? I know bk isn't supposed to be a hunter/PvM char, but atm. bk is a huge joke, and we're forced to make alt chars for pvm purpose - I'd rather go hunt with my 6rr AE than with my main bk. Also if you don't have a premade group to carry your ass, Imperial event is just another event that us BK's don't have any chance of getting rewards from ranking, cause no one will take a BK in a timer run just to ruin it ^^. I know you guys like the ideea of missing one combo - lose pvp, and I understand that you are long time BK players, but compared to other classes who are ranged, have slow or higher movement speed and insane damage, BK is just a joke. As much as I love BK and the whole class fantasy thing(Tank character who likes to go toe to toe with foes) I'm really thinking of rerolling into something else.

 

Also, AE is said to have medium damage, but compared to other classes that have medium-high damage, or high burst damage as you said, I'm pretty sure AE dominates every world boss and events, and I think that anyone that is active on server can confirm - Also, I like the idea of starting to let the elves use their buffs outside of CS as well(weaker version)

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