Class Ballance.

[CeptaVista]

From all what did he wrote u just look for mistakes and ignore the real truth about illusion temple and golden rush , phatentic , get your pants jizzed of this Dl and RF dominace in game.

[enTaroaduN]

19 minutes ago, Roby said:

Ok i really tried to read ... But i stopped here
-''At this point, when almost nobody has fenrir, DL can just leave a dust trail behind everyone else that tries to hunt goldens, because of his Horse he can reach the goldens before any other class, he can cover the maps before any other class.''

It s just so desperate and cringe to say that lol , hey let s remove the dark horse from dark  lord .

Second attempt to read

''VRF has no chance vs DL '' idk what server you play my man , but DL no longer beats RF no matter how much he kites .

I m seeing your stats right now , you are 12 rr and equiped with acc set + 0 , and probably u have 2 k max vit , and u come to complain of pvp settings .

First of all, I have access to many accounts Roby, from 5rr to 14rr so I tested a lot, on the official server and test server as well. Don't get me wrong, I didn't said to remove horse, I like DL class myself as well, but this is actually ridiculous how powerful the class is. The horse thing as I said, was just a small example of DL's advantages, and I can go on if you want more, I didn't said that's the main problem, it was just a small example that can always have an impact in the game, like many others. DL's mobility was always a thing for the class, but since it has so much DPS on that chaotic, being so tanky, etc, besides that, he has insane mobility as well, that was my point. I am not here to fight over things like this, unless you give me arguments, your words are just nonsense.

And second of all, I don't know why're you talking about my stats and gears, Enis+Anubis +0, that's my farming/leveling gears. But to make you happy, I'll give you a fair example. I tested my SM against HooligaN's DL, same rr, same lvl. Even tho I have better gears than him, and I am talking about my PVP set(3/5 Pad Items +15 LK+dd+ref+hp+mana/Lk+ref+hp+mana+zen/Lk+ref+hp+mana+zen +2 Legendary items Lk+dd+ref/LK+dd+hp +12) and another try with full Legendary set +12 LK+dd+ref/Lk+dd+hp/Lk+dd+dsr. And about my stats, no, I have 7k hp with my PVP set on(3k vit +the hp from set). Both results are, not matter how much I am kiting, it's impossible to kill him, even tho I always manage to get his SD to 0, first, when I am trying to stay still for a second to hit my full dmg, my health just melts and I just can't kill him. 

About VRF, if you read again, I just said that VRF is the only class that can get close to beat DL. At this point, DL can still beat VRF, because VRF it's still scaling and it will scale even more, so soon, VRF gonna be unkillable. But let me remind you that VRF has very low mobility, very low hit range and so on, and if you want, you can just infinitely kite him, and you won't be able to kill him, but neither will he, unlike DL that can kill any other class from a range that they can't reach, even tho they are kiting or running.

So why a single class should have so many advantages and a full kit in PVP and PVM as well, while others have to carefully build either for PVP or PVM, and still getting their ass kicked, by one class.

Give me solid arguments next time, don't speak things that you don't know about. Most of you on this server changed your class, into DL and RF, cause you saw this two classes are just overwhelming the others, in PVP and PVM as well. So why you even bother to contradict me, when you know the truth yourself? DL it's extremely broken right now, the players knows it, the STAFF knows it, so we are all waiting for it's nerf next patch, to finally see this class, at the same "level" with the others.

[Exilia]

In my opinion the only problem with elf right now is that you need to add 4k energy to unlock ice arrow, and the fact that using those points on ene provides us literally nothing more than the spell itself. Just imagine if BK would have to add 4k ene in order to unlock combo - he would still get % skill damage and stronger fortitude buff. If sMG would have to add 4k ene in order to unlock fire slash - he would still get higher % defense reduction. If DL would have to add 4k ene in order to unlock chaotic - he would still get stronger critical damage buff. If summoner would have to add 4k str in order to unlock her abilities - well, that would be lame, right?

I do think that pure pvm elf is still able to do the things she is supposed to (ks goldens, bc, other bosses, etc.), pure pvp elf is still pretty strong against melee range fighters, but this hybrid build - or so called support elf - feels really incomplete due the way you have to build her. I do understand that the ice arrow is pretty strong ability, and im fine with the fact that we will lose some damage and survivability if we wish to use it, but I also feel like there should be some additional benefits for using that 4k points on energy. 
And still I think the best option to do this would be to enable the def/dmg buff on sv1, but only with xx(10/20 maybe?) % of the basic value. This would simply give more identity for this "support" elf and those points used on energy would not feel like such a waste anymore.

And since we're talking about DL's, I don't play the class by myself, but at the moment it feels like he has the top tier mobility, top tier damage, top tier defense and top tier range. Don't really have ideas how to balance it, but I give my +1 for disabling the horse movement in Illusion Temple, it's just unnecessary benefit which creates nothing more than unbalance. 

[Colossus]

no one talking about summy high defense and high attack speed ? 

[Juri]

13 hours ago, Exilia said:

In my opinion the only problem with elf right now is that you need to add 4k energy to unlock ice arrow, and the fact that using those points on ene provides us literally nothing more than the spell itself. Just imagine if BK would have to add 4k ene in order to unlock combo - he would still get % skill damage and stronger fortitude buff. If sMG would have to add 4k ene in order to unlock fire slash - he would still get higher % defense reduction. If DL would have to add 4k ene in order to unlock chaotic - he would still get stronger critical damage buff. If summoner would have to add 4k str in order to unlock her abilities - well, that would be lame, right?

I do think that pure pvm elf is still able to do the things she is supposed to (ks goldens, bc, other bosses, etc.), pure pvp elf is still pretty strong against melee range fighters, but this hybrid build - or so called support elf - feels really incomplete due the way you have to build her. I do understand that the ice arrow is pretty strong ability, and im fine with the fact that we will lose some damage and survivability if we wish to use it, but I also feel like there should be some additional benefits for using that 4k points on energy. 
And still I think the best option to do this would be to enable the def/dmg buff on sv1, but only with xx(10/20 maybe?) % of the basic value. This would simply give more identity for this "support" elf and those points used on energy would not feel like such a waste anymore.

And since we're talking about DL's, I don't play the class by myself, but at the moment it feels like he has the top tier mobility, top tier damage, top tier defense and top tier range. Don't really have ideas how to balance it, but I give my +1 for disabling the horse movement in Illusion Temple, it's just unnecessary benefit which creates nothing more than unbalance. 

I actually agree, i would consider just adding some dmg from ene for elf as well. But only on 1st and 3rd srv, not on CS srv.

[Hvman]

On 11/21/2020 at 7:06 PM, Colossus said:

What I see here ,is that you all complain about your characters .You all want your characters to be top in hunt,pvp ,pvm .Till now DL was OP ,now some1 was complaining about ELF being OP ,now another one said that VRF is OP ...wait till late game and see that fenrir will be OP ,but not for all ...and keep this topic to cry each rr.

I'm DL and i say NERF DL cause it's too op?

Also, chain lightning skill on summ is not working so cometfall has to have higher atk speed on summ compared to SM ofc, since summ's chain lightning is a lot faster than sm's cometfall. The dmg is pretty understandable, summ is paper, so he needs high dmg for bursts given that he dies in 3 hits.

On 11/23/2020 at 6:55 AM, Exilia said:

In my opinion the only problem with elf right now is that you need to add 4k energy to unlock ice arrow, and the fact that using those points on ene provides us literally nothing more than the spell itself. Just imagine if BK would have to add 4k ene in order to unlock combo - he would still get % skill damage and stronger fortitude buff. If sMG would have to add 4k ene in order to unlock fire slash - he would still get higher % defense reduction. If DL would have to add 4k ene in order to unlock chaotic - he would still get stronger critical damage buff. If summoner would have to add 4k str in order to unlock her abilities - well, that would be lame, right?

I do think that pure pvm elf is still able to do the things she is supposed to (ks goldens, bc, other bosses, etc.), pure pvp elf is still pretty strong against melee range fighters, but this hybrid build - or so called support elf - feels really incomplete due the way you have to build her. I do understand that the ice arrow is pretty strong ability, and im fine with the fact that we will lose some damage and survivability if we wish to use it, but I also feel like there should be some additional benefits for using that 4k points on energy. 
And still I think the best option to do this would be to enable the def/dmg buff on sv1, but only with xx(10/20 maybe?) % of the basic value. This would simply give more identity for this "support" elf and those points used on energy would not feel like such a waste anymore.

And since we're talking about DL's, I don't play the class by myself, but at the moment it feels like he has the top tier mobility, top tier damage, top tier defense and top tier range. Don't really have ideas how to balance it, but I give my +1 for disabling the horse movement in Illusion Temple, it's just unnecessary benefit which creates nothing more than unbalance. 

This is what i was looking for. The buff idea.

 

P.S. My conclusion is:

Nerf DL pvp dmg 2-5%, buff pvm 2-5%

Buff ae, or gets his buff to be worth that 4k ene for ice.

Rest of the classes seems fine on w3+ddi.

[Juri]

I think DL was hit too hard, but will se how it goes. I would consider giving back some damage for chaotic and maybe reduce def/defense rate of dl.

[Roby]

You all cried about DL , and now come back here that was hit too hard ? xD People fcking wrote novels about how OP is DL , what did u expect ?

I propose dmg of chaotic to remain the same (45% nerfed) and  reduce 50 % def of DL !

[Gion]

9 hours ago, Roby said:

You all cried about DL , and now come back here that was hit too hard ? xD People fcking wrote novels about how OP is DL , what did u expect ?

I propose dmg of chaotic to remain the same (45% nerfed) and  reduce 50 % def of DL !

🤣👍

[TOMMYskillfiger]

10 hours ago, Roby said:

You all cried about DL , and now come back here that was hit too hard ? xD People fcking wrote novels about how OP is DL , what did u expect ?

I propose dmg of chaotic to remain the same (45% nerfed) and  reduce 50 % def of DL !

they were not novels but facts on the otherside the only thing you did on your posts were to qq or rage. Since i played dl in last db and i wanted to quit cuz i had to play with this shitty firescream especially on pvm its disgusting i suggest to keep setting like it is now for cs purposes(sv20) and make him more of glasscannon thing outside of cs (sv1/sv3) (i dont know if its possible tho)i guess most dl's if not all would prefer to play as semi glasscannon with the mobility they got from horse/earthquake 

[Hvman]

I think this HUGE nerf is going to hit hard, because (rightfully so) people will want to changerace from DL cause FS is simply unplayable, low range, really bad atk speed, most of the time positioning buffs out. (you forget on phoenix when it was only FS, we had CTRL bug, and let's be honest dl was a disaster on phoenix).

The 2 problems i see hit straight into the Castle Siege:

1. Most will change, you wont be able to find DLs or get underleveled ones, so no summon.

2. DMG-DLS are gone from CS as of now, their dmg is inexistent with 45% nerf dmg, then -50% on CS server. So we are back again to the all DLS go stomp meta with a chaos overall and spam horses. Hiu, so skilled

[Roby]

13 hours ago, TOMMYskillfiger said:

they were not novels but facts on the otherside the only thing you did on your posts were to qq or rage. Since i played dl in last db and i wanted to quit cuz i had to play with this shitty firescream especially on pvm its disgusting i suggest to keep setting like it is now for cs purposes(sv20) and make him more of glasscannon thing outside of cs (sv1/sv3) (i dont know if its possible tho)i guess most dl's if not all would prefer to play as semi glasscannon with the mobility they got from horse/earthquake 

Ofc i raged when i saw quotes like ''Oh DL has horse man, we can`t catch him '' or ''DL make invasion faster dude'' . I`m ussually a calm guy , and very friendly , but was crazy how people reacted here ,  with what arguments people camed here to put pressure ..

Yes i agree he had high dmg , 10% nerf on chaotic or overall nerf  (chaotic the only skill usable on both pvp and pvp) would be enough . But hey you all camed here even with arguments that DL it s OP even in PVM , well what can i say let s have fun with FIRE SCREAM .

P.S. I hope your DL guildies are all proud of you ❤️ . Peace , out.

[TOMMYskillfiger]

5 minutes ago, Roby said:

Ofc i raged when i saw quotes like ''Oh DL has horse man, we can`t catch him '' or ''DL make invasion faster dude'' . I`m ussually a calm guy , and very friendly , but was crazy how people reacted here ,  with what arguments people camed here to put pressure ..

Yes i agree he had high dmg , 10% nerf on chaotic or overall nerf  (chaotic the only skill usable on both pvp and pvp) would be enough . But hey you all camed here even with arguments that DL it s OP even in PVM , well what can i say let s have fun with FIRE SCREAM .

P.S. I hope your DL guildies are all proud of you ❤️ . Peace , out.

im playing casually and i dont have guild but i love to test builds and stuff on the test srv and dl was like a god pvp wise about pvm he got the best mobility and insane def so he shouldnt be close to dmg with other classes that has to be close to boss or dying so fast and without escape mechanic.Dont get me wrong im playing here since the start of oldsquad s6 and i know how disgusting and horrible is to play with firescream,sometimes it hits like crazy sometimes its buggie and doesnt hit at all( about pvp yes it doesnt hit all chars but which class got such a skill that can multi targets at 100% every other deadly spell that comes to my mind is just doing some splash dmg to close range enemies) so you have to repotision but thats why we disguss here to find solution so everyone can be happy and got fair gameplay just be patient(like everyone has to be while i were dying vs dl2rr less than me with +0 rate set while i had everything +11 double opt) and give time to ppl to express their ideas and admin will decide.

 

[leivazul]

so this is how to kill a class with nothing else than tears.

[zer0x1]

Buff BK PvE reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

For real tho. As an example: 
A PvP build will suffer 33% combo damage loss, if it really is calcualted str:agi:ene 1:1:1
Basically every other build suffers too, if you dont go for all three stats.

Another sad thing is:

Why TF is Death Stab speed capped? On top of that it deal EXACTLY the same damage as twisting shlash - aka it is completly useless if not used for combo.

Another sad thing is:

Since Death Stab is speed capped, you are combo capped. No matter how good your mechanical skill is, you will get slowed down by Stab.

Another ultra sad thing is (and I can speak from experience here)

3 grouped up BK's will get outdamaged by a single summoner in every way possible.

 

You actually have to try it:

Take 3 BK same rr and 1 Sum - position them next to a GGD. Now start attacking at the same time.

BK is allowed to combo as fast as he can, Summoner can only use Blast.

 

The summoner will win 100% of the time if build for energy.

And my point is it is not just Summoner that outdamages BK in PvE. Every class does. And I mean EVERY CLASS.

PVP is a whole other concept (on which BK suffers too big time, but ill hold it here)

 

How is this fair? The only class a BK can contest is a BK. Facts



EDIT: 
I gotta admit after end-stage balancing it is better PvE wise. BK still suffers big time from multiple problems compared to other characters imho.

[Gion]

The BK is by far the worst pve character, that's how the game is designed, and it looks good for me that a Summoner to win vs 3 bk in pve, since the Summoner stands no chance if the BKs will ever think to actually go Pvp. I mean 1v1

[batanete]

35 minutes ago, Gion said:

The BK is by far the worst pve character, that's how the game is designed, and it looks good for me that a Summoner to win vs 3 bk in pve, since the Summoner stands no chance if the BKs will ever think to actually go Pvp. I mean 1v1

This makes absolutely no sense. It's one thing to make certain characters slightly more suited for PVM and others for PVP(let's say, about 30% more suited), but the gap shouldn't be nearly as massive as that, otherwise you are basically telling everyone who likes to play a certain character that they have to choose certain portions of the game that are playable(for them), and just ignore everything else. This is made even worse by the fact that unless they change class, they are stuck with that character until the next DB.

I get that a lot of the unbalance is present in Mu at its core(and therefore not the server's fault, or yours/ADMIN's), but saying it's "fine" that three BK's get out-DPS'ed by a single character because BK is better at PVP is just laughable. The goal should be to make the characters strength in all areas as close as possible, which is what all successful MMO's do.